I'd rather find a decent email provider.

I should add that I know there are filters in Thunderbird, but none of them seems to do what I need here.

Our pop3 mail provider only provides 1 e-mail account.

It sounds rather odd for an email provider not being able to offer more than one account.

christ1 said

Our pop3 mail provider only provides 1 e-mail account.

It sounds rather odd for an email provider not being able to offer more than one account.

It probably is. They are our ISP as well, and this is the only service they provide. I am aware there are better options out there, but we have had our mail addresses for several years and would prefer if we could be allowed to keep those.

So does this lack of advice mean that there is no feature in Thunderbird or any add-on that allows for this specific thing?

The old windows live mail had a feature that allowed to sort mails like this, but I haven't been able to find anything similar in the new windows mail. So it is probably not a common thing to allow for this.

Years ago (like late 1990s) in the dial-up days I had one POP3 account with a particular provider where one could also have another 4 (I think it was) alias addresses that directed to the same mailbox. With that provider the thing was that if you logged in to the mail server for a POP3 fetch with the main account address then you got all the email for all the addresses, main and aliases. BUT if you logged in to the server with one of the alias addresses you only got the email for that alias, not the emails addressed to the main address or the other aliases. ('Aliases' are additional addresses that direct to an original, normal address - when mail servers look up those addresses to send emails to them, they find a special 'alias' DNS record that redirects them to the normal DNS record for the original main address.) For a little while I had my work email as one of those aliases, so at work I logged in with the alias and just got emails addressed to work, while at home I logged in with the main address, getting any emails addressed to the home address during the day as they had been left on the server (but also getting any work emails thsat arrived in home hours).

Now, I've also had accounts with providers that did not work like that (in fact most have given me extra email addresses that have separate mail boxes that have to be logged into separately). But if you haven't tried, it might be worth checking. Are you always logging in to do fetches with the original i.e main address? If so, just try seeing if it will let you log in for a fetch with one of the aliases and see if maybe that will only fetch that alias's emails. It may not let you log in with an alias address at all, only the main, original address. Or it may let you log in and still give you all the emails to every address. But if you are lucky you will just get that alias address emails. And in that case everyone can just fetch their own emails by logging in to fetch with their alias address, EXCEPT that you will need to find an alias to use instead of the main address and stop checking in with that as it will clear everyone else's emails they haven't fetched yet (except for an occasional check to sweep up any odd redirects to the main address).

And, yes, for POP3 fetches there is not really anything Thunderbird can do other than pick what username (address) you log in with. POP3 is a very old, very simple protocol from before the time when people had several accounts, and there are no client (i.e. Thunderbird) side commands in the Protocol to just request certain downloads. That's what IMAP was invented for. You see, when any email client connects with POP3 it can ONLY use commands to the server that are defined in the POP3 protocol - It doesn't matter how clever Thunderbird or other clients are, or how advanced and clever the server is - if it's a POP3 fetch, only POP3 commands can be used. Your only chance is if the provider enables e.g. what i just suggested you look for - logging in with aliases only giving a download of emails to that alias. But that depends (a) on the server software the provider is using, and (b) them enabling that function in the server software if it is one that supports that.

DavidGB said

Now, I've also had accounts with providers that did not work like that (in fact most have given me extra email addresses that have separate mail boxes that have to be logged into separately). But if you haven't tried, it might be worth checking.

I have talked with the ISP several times. Their setup is not nearly as advanced as what you are suggesting. Only possible solution is what I am asking for. DavidGB said

And, yes, for POP3 fetches there is not really anything Thunderbird can do other than pick what username (address) you log in with.

Alright. If you are sure about it, that Thunderbird (or any of it's apps) has no solution that will help here, I will have to trust that then. I will have to figure something else out.

Thanks.

You say you have 'talked with the ISP several times'. I haven't had a reason to talk to any of my ISPs for years, but I had to quite a lot in the late 90s and early 00s, for myself and on behalf of others. One thing all ISP technical support departments I've dealt with have in common is that the customer service people you initially speak to have absolutely no clue about anything technical: they have a script of common questions/problems and answers, and anything outside that they know nothing about (and. sadly, will often give totally wrong answers about). I often had to spend half an hour arguing to get my issue 'escalated' through at least 3 levels to finally talk to an engineer who actually understood the technical stuff, and what I was talking about when citing the server's incorrect protocol responses, or that I'd uses telnet instead of a mail client to interrogate the mail server directly, and so knew undisputedly that the problem was not that my email client was configured incorrectly but rather that their server was. One ISP, after the second time, their senior engineer actually gave me his direct number because he knew I'd actually give him detailed, accurate, usually fully diagnosed information about a problem, not just the usual 'It's broke'.

So, I'd ask again, have you actually TRIED logging in to the mail server with an account that uses one of the alias addresses as the username rather than the original main email address (but same password)? If so, did it let you log in? If it did, did it download all messages, or only the ones To (or better X-Envelope To) that alias address? If it does let you do that, then you can have what you want by judicious fetches with separate accounts for each alias address, using the alias address as the username for the fetches. If not ...

POP3 only has a very limited number of commands the client (Thunderbird in this case) can send to the server. Basically, after USER (username) and PASS (password) to start the session, and QUIT to end it, there's really only STAT, LIST, RETR and DELE, plus sometimes TOP and UIDL. After logging into a POP3 session with the mail server, the client (Thunderbird, or any other) will send STAT, and the server will respond with two numbers: the number of messages in the mailbox, and their combined size. Then, presuming there are messages so the reply to STAT wasn't zero, the client will send LIST. The server will reply with a list of the fashion:

1 x 2 y 3 z

where each line is a message, the first number being the number in the list, but x y and z would be the respective size of the messages. So. ALL Thunderbird knows about the first message is its size - not its content, not who it is addressed to, nothing but the size of 'message 1'. What will then usully happen is that the client will send RETR 1 and the server will then send the entire 1st message. DELE 1 and the server deletes the first message from the mailbox. RETR 2 and the server sends the second message, DELE 2 and the server deletes rhe second message, and so on until it has reached the final message. Then the session ends. So, you should see that Thunderbird, or any other client, CANNOT know who each message is for until AFTER it has downloaded it.

.... unless the server supports the extra command TOP. Top 1 2, for example, would download the headers for the first message plus the first two lines. SO a client could look at the headers and decide NOT to then send a RETR 1 and therefore not download (or delete) all of that message.

Still, theoretically there is a way ... slightly dependent on the particular ISP server configuration (some delete all messages fetched at the end of a session even without the client telling them to, which is bad form, but that doesn't stop some ISPs from doing it). A Client COULD RETR a message, immediately filter it, if the To (Envelope-To would be better) was for that alias address, then save it in the inbox and delete it from the server as usual, but if it was for one of the other aliases, then just forget it, don't put it in the inbox, and leave it on the server (no DELE command) for the other person to download in their client.

Hm.

OK ... I'm looking at the filters available in Thundferbird for POP3 fetches. The description doesn't quite match the reality of what is actually happening in a POP3 session WRT the actual client commands and server replies, but if they have the end effect they appear to say ...

Yes, actually, if some of the filters do what I think they must do, and if your ISP server is strictly following the RFCs, perhaps supports the TOP command, then I think I could describe to you settings that would have the end result that e.g. you with one of the alias addresses just download the emails addressed to your alias address, but leave the others on the server to be downloaded by the other members of your family. It means a number of specific settings in the account settings pane, and configuring a filter with a couple of match conditions and two actions when matched. Per person's account.

Before I try and type out the detail, could you just tell me .... each person using the account with the assorted email aliases, do they each use a different computer and are they (or could they be) all using Thunderbird? Or are they using the same computer in turns but with separate accounts? What exactly is the setup? Are the others actually already managing to just download their own, so it is just you? The effect I'm thinking of will be that you fetching will just fetch your messages with one address and leave the rest in the server for the others, but for it all to work then it matters what the other family members with the other aliases are doing or could be doing to get their mail? So do we have to come up with just configurations for you, configurations for everyone but all using Thunderbird, or configurations for everybody but using different clients?

(P.S. Disability means their may be pauses before I can reply.)

That was a very long post, so it is quite likely I'll miss a few things here and there. Just let me know and I'll answer that too. DavidGB said

So, I'd ask again, have you actually TRIED logging in to the mail server with an account that uses one of the alias addresses as the username rather than the original main email address (but same password)?

Yes I have. That is how both accounts log in (with their respective e-amil addresses, but with the same password.

If so, did it let you log in? If it did, did it download all messages, or only the ones To (or better X-Envelope To) that alias address?

Yes, we log in just fine. Whomever logs in downloads every single mail on the account, no matter the address.

If it does let you do that, then you can have what you want by judicious fetches with separate accounts for each alias address, using the alias address as the username for the fetches. If not ...

I don't understand what you are saying here. I also do not understand what is meant by "X-envelope to". But I have a feeling that it doesn't matter much since we download all mails anyway. English is not my first language btw.

[...] .... unless the server supports the extra command TOP. Top 1 2, for example, would download the headers for the first message plus the first two lines. SO a client could look at the headers and decide NOT to then send a RETR 1 and therefore not download (or delete) all of that message.

I don't know if the server supports such commands, but I doubt it. The solution the ISP had for this mess was that one could make some folders on the server itself, and then the server could sort the mails into the relevant folders on the server. But if you did that, you couldn't actually fetch the mails to your client and had to read the mails on the server itself. (Yes, I know: solutions like that doesn't exactly inspire confidence).

Before I try and type out the detail, could you just tell me .... each person using the account with the assorted email aliases, do they each use a different computer and are they (or could they be) all using Thunderbird? Or are they using the same computer in turns but with separate accounts?

We are on the same computer, but with different accounts. We are all using Thunderbird.

What exactly is the setup? Are the others actually already managing to just download their own, so it is just you?

No, we all download everyone's mails.

The effect I'm thinking of will be that you fetching will just fetch your messages with one address and leave the rest in the server for the others,

That sounds exactly like what I am looking for. It would be nice if that was possible.

but for it all to work then it matters what the other family members with the other aliases are doing or could be doing to get their mail? So do we have to come up with just configurations for you, configurations for everyone but all using Thunderbird, or configurations for everybody but using different clients?

We need a configuration for both of us (there are only two of us, if that matters). And we are both using Thunderbird.

(P.S. Disability means their may be pauses before I can reply.)

No worries. And thank you for trying.