The I-do-not-like-Firefox-29-layout topic
(For Forum Moderators: Please read /forums/forum-moderators/710264?last=59300)
Moderators, please read first before closing/removing this topic right away?
To those wanting to react here on this topic: please, also read ;)
Since my original posting https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/997009 was closed because one of the moderators felt it was going off-topic (although it was red a lot and had 131 "have-this-problem" in just a few days), here a kind of re-opening but on-topic.
Why? Because I feel we have the right to express our feelings on this major change. And publicly there is actually only this forum where that can be done on the Mozilla.org domain.
Sure, the change is there and we have to live with it (if we choose to). But that doesn't mean we can not have our voice here because after many, many years of supporting FF with our use, we suddenly are facing a layout we were always running away from.
So yes, that can cause ranting and so on (within the forum rules of course) because people feel strongly about there beloved browser.
(edit rules link note the whole topic is ordinarily outside the scope of the forum ... Posts in the Mozilla support forum must be either questions about the use of Firefox, ... Users who post about things other than Mozilla support will be directed to an alternative discussion place .... . ~J99)
Plus this way you can centralize all the negatives here instead of a lot of separate postings about the same subject ;)
To the people reacting here in this topic: there is only 1 real way to let Mozilla itself know how you feel on the new lay out and that is not through this forum. The way is to go to https://input.mozilla.org/feedback/ and let it know there.
edit You need to use a supported Firefox to post Feedback so that will soon not be possible from Fx28 2nd edit. I was wrong feedback works with any version of Fiefpx now~J99
And I think when that is done in normal words (so no f*ck you rants and so on) and suggestions, then maybe, just maybe, it has some effect.
Also, there is an Mozilla support page with info on how to get the "old look" back, see How to make the new Firefox look like the old FirefoxBut it will only partly restore the old look, certain FF29 things can not be changed.
And yes, I myself am back to Firefox 28 which is not supported or suggested by Mozilla because it has things (bugs and security) that are not fixed in it. (Edit Please use Official downloads if you must downgrade links in Install an older version of Firefox and the growing list of exploits you will open yourself up to is listed here: https://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html ~J99)
I am not suggesting or advertising to others to do the same. It is a risk I am willing to take and only say it is an option.
edit My reason to go back to FF 28 is because that version still has the intuitive feel and look Firefox one was praised for. With a logical lay out and a good way to simply customize it (also in about:config).
For those who say/think "Come one man, stop whining! Grow up and just accept that Firefox has to go with its time!", to them I say: nope ;)
First edit Modified May 10, 2014 7:54:58 PM BST by John99
2nd: re feedback
Izmjenjeno od strane John99
Izabrano rješenje
Spread the word:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-the-old-firefox-features
Comment by a Moderator Some of the subjects in the long thread
- Semi Silent updates and users resorting to Firefox 28 or Firefox clones
/questions/998106?page=4#answer-579482 - Community Opinion /questions/998106?page=4#answer-575596
- Install two versions of Firefox /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568397
- It looks like Chrome /questions/998106?page=3#answer-573617
- It badly affects productivity /questions/998106?page=3#answer-572502
- A Pale Moon Fan /questions/998106#answer-568231
- Its too dark to see the tabs /questions/997907#answer-580119 (adjacent thread)
- WORKAROUNDS explanations and help articles
- (immediately under the first post) ,make it look like the old one /questions/998106#answer-566574
- The fact we can not influence Developers. /questions/998106#answer-567244
- My personal opinion some things that should be changed /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568373
- List of help articles and useful posts /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568374
Modified May 27, 2014 10:17:21 AM BST by John99
P.S. Feedback & discussions options see also links in /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568374
Pročitajte ovaj odgovor sa objašnjenjem 👍 2All Replies (20)
Thanks for the link, I registered my displeasure. From all I've heard turning off any updates in options - advanced - update will continue to stop any updating. They may rethink if enough users refuse to update. If not there's other browsers.
It is also worth noting that Mozillazine is separate from and not Related to Mozilla. You could equally well have the same discussion anywhere else on the internet. Mozillazine is a forum that does sometimes go down, possibly being overloaded, and can take some time to comeback.
What thread and forum are you generally using over there at present ? I can currently see and read the threads
- Australis Ico/Text, Text Only and more...
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2777255 - Firefox 29.0 FAQ - the Australis.. Discussion thread
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2824463 - Firefox 29 - Australis Guide and How to
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2824649 - Firefox 29.0 hangs on close http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2825639
I am not in a position to make official comments on behalf of Mozilla, but as far as I can telI it appears Mozilla has no interest in facilitating discussion of this subject.
HelpDesk staff, Admins, and Development staff would all be better placed to make an official comment but are notably absent from most of these discussions and questions.
@meegja: Thanks for the feedback link, which I've used - more than likely to no avail.
Also registered a comment on their User Advocacy site (https://blog.mozilla.org/useradvocacy/2014/02/18/physical-input/#comment-76), but surprise, surprise, it was prevented from being added because I was honest and didn't blow sunshine up their arse.
It's clear to me that Mozilla don't want to know about the thousands upon thousands of angry users, to the point where I now believe they're resorting to publicly lying about the nature of feedback in order to justify their botched up mess and make those who don't know better, think it's a wonderful creation.
Izmjenjeno od strane notthenineoclocknews
@ notthenineoclocknews Thanx for that Blog URL. Did some reading there and I found https://blog.mozilla.org/useradvocacy/2014/03/18/the-next-big-thing-for-firefox-and-how-we-listen-to-our-users/ (as far as I understand a beta blog on Australis) Bit weird title for that blog I think. All the big negatives are listed there yet the only thing they actually say is "Ah well, just use add ons". So maybe they indeed listened to whatever they wanted to hear.
Rather than commenting on blogs, that may not be directly related and will almost certainly only allow comments tightly related to the blog and likely only immediately after it is made, why not look for one of the fora / mailing lists although again they may be moderated and will have policies on subjects allowed.
I must leave it to you to figure out which if any may be used but some links to consider
As I say at present I have seen no official suggestions of anywhere this subject may be discussed on Mozilla, and that is the reason threads like this are at present temporarily permitted here.
Sorry not to be relevant, but it is kind of relevent
I have tried asking Support a question about bookmarks. (No matter what I do , I can't get a new bookmark into any useful listing.)
it's given me 1000 answers and none of them on the first few pages answer what I asked.
If I say it's not helpful, it just bleats "thank you for making us better!" and offers no other route to getting help at all.
I've managed to post questions in the past, finding the route by accident. I am almost weeping with frustration. Any advice please?
GreenGreat
To add a bookmark one method is clicking the bookmark star TWICE and then using the dropdown navigation options
You only appear to have asked two questions
- How to I restore a single tab that i have deleted by mistake?
/questions/1001440 - Would like to feed back about latest update /questions/1000183
Your personal questions are listed here
- /search?a=1&asked_by=GreenGreat&sortb...
- Generally anyone's whilst signed in can see their own questions here
/questions/firefox?owner=mine&show=all
If you need to ask a new question please use /questions/new
'edit If that gives you problems then on this occasion use the link
/questions/new/desktop/fix-problems/form?search=bookmarks+failure+%28%2F...
Izmjenjeno od strane John99
Thank you. Hi, I know, I've tried that. It only works at the point you are downloading the bookmark. If you try and do it after that, you just download which ever tab is selected at the time (of course).
When I downloaded a new bookmark earlier today, it went into the unsorted bookmarks folder. OK. I tried to drag and drop it. It disappeared. Now it is only in the Recently Bookmarked list. I know you are supposed to be able to manage it, but when I tried to move it to the Bookmarks menu, nothing appeared!
I seem to have two folders called "Temp" and "[Folder name]" (literally). I can't move my bookmark from Recently bookmarked into either of those. "Temp" seems to have my real bookmarks in it, "{folder name}" seems to have old bookmarks which I had deleted in it. I think. I have never "organised" any of these in this way.
I have looked at the Organise your Bookmarks help page, but it hasn't got me any further on.
Izmjenjeno od strane GreenGreat
To Top 25 ...
Thank you for the link, that is the one I needed. I have kept it.
Trying to Google for help doesn't take you straight there, it takes you to that "Mozilla search" which throws up hundreds of answers most of which don't refer to the subject ...
I thought the things about how many questions i had asked between lines were a kind of auto-record, then I realised the other replies don't have them and there was probably information there ... Thank you again.
Sorry that is to John99 ... :D
I think I did post some feedback originally but that was on another part of the site, feedback (but not the link here, I think) and it was about how the site had changed suddenly and without clear warning. Someone came to that, gave me some help and invited me to another thread ... this one I think.
Izmjenjeno od strane GreenGreat
GreenGreat
Start your own question about the bookmarks I am sure we will be able to help you. I am sure others in the thread will confirm bookmarking works ok for them.
Eiter you are misunderstanding an instruction or you have some fault with your Firefox.
thank you I will next time I have some free time ... I want also to do some more reading on the "help" pages first so I can become more familiar with them. It's more likely that I am misunderstanding something.
GreenGreat,
Bookmarks There are changes in how Fx29 displays bookmarks and bookmarks options so I will add this post as a quick explanation.
Note the help article I already linked to includes a short video clip and a screenshot animation it should be helpful and easier than trying to explain in a thread.
- Bookmarks in Firefox
(Remember you may need to click the star a second time) - Use bookmark folders to organize your bookmarks
The second article is about the folders. Note that the toolbar the unsorted bookmarks and the main menu sections are effectively folders, and folders may be expanded, and nested within other folders. There have been big changes in bookmarks menus in Firefox 29, and further improvements are made in later versions. (Assuming pre release features carry forward to the Release)
There are several ways to view bookmarks
- Dropdown listing from the menu adjacent to the bookmark star
- Bookmarks Sidebar (Usually Ctrl+B)
- Bookmarks Library. Aka: Manager,show all (Usually Ctrl + Shift+B)
- see also Keyboard shortcuts - Perform common Firefox tasks quickly_bookmarks (Because shortcuts may vary)
Other notes about bookmark use
- There are arrowheads to scroll some screens (Next versions of Fx differ slightly)
- Open all bookmarks option on Fx29 is likely to scroll off screen.
- The tree diagrams with with horizontal arrowheads expand folders.
- If you have a folder on the top level of the bookmarks toolbar that becomes a dropdown list, and that itself may contain folders.
- The book marks library has two panes to it the tree and the details
Some people will have thousands of bookmarks and may nest them into folders within folder several layers deep.
The open all bookmarks option is currently (Fx29) at the bottom of the on screen listing and gets hidden with not very noticeable scroll arrows. There are a few improvements in later versions.
Too many problems and too much work to make 29/Australis work well for too many. While Mozilla may be able to keep its head in the sand on the forums, the real test will be the usage numbers for Browsers down the road. It is clear Firefox has been steadily losing share over the past months. If this current change is "good", it will halt or reverse this trend. If this change is rejected by a number of current users and also fails to replace them with new users, then this change is "bad".
The user reviews are mostly not good all over the net. But this makes little difference. People will vote by what they decide to use. So watch the browser usage stats and forget about posting in this forum or in the official feedback channel as either will have no effect on the people in charge.
Personally, I would be willing to pay for a Firefox desktop browser that wasn't 29+/Australis for use on my PC. A browser that stuck to the original principles of Mozilla. I would rather pay for that than to use those from Apple, Google or Microsoft for free.
You certainly summed up my thoughts and feelings, TwoTank.
Yeah TwoTankAmin, I agree with you. We shouldn't have to go through a lot of hoops and re-configuring to get Firefox back to what we had and there's no guarantee that future updates won't reverse all that work and force us to do it all again anyway. Constantly reconfiguring a browser is not something I want to spend my time on. There's three 64 bit open source clones of Firefox: Waterfox, Pale Moon, and Cyberfox that should work, being open source without a rich sponsor (Google) they're always in need of donations. You should look into one of them, I am. They track Firefox's code base with all the security updates, but leave UI changes up to the user. I expect they will get a lot more users with this Firefox version driving a lot of longtime fans away.
Everyone
or in the official feedback channel as either will have no effect on the people in charge.
- PLEASE use the official feedback, but to register your views I suggest making only short one point comments on single subjects. Make multiple posts if necessary because of multiple issues. That information does get analysed.
- On this thread please use the button to vote as agreeing you have this problem. At least your vote is noted.
There's three 64 bit open source clones of Firefox:
I thought I would clarify
- Pale Moon is also available as a 32 bit version.
- Anything that is Windows based Firefox, using 64 bit, is NOT based on fully supported Firefox Release code; because Firefox only fully supports 32 bit Firefox on Windows. (/docs/Supported_build_configurations)
- The code Palemoon is based on may not include all security fixes, because the ESR base it uses gets the important, but not all, security fixes.
John99, thanks for the info. I think it's interesting that 64 bit Firefox is fully supported on linux and OS X, but not windows. It's more surprising that the ESR release doesn't get all security fixes, since that's supposed to be the reason for it. Pale Moon does seem to be the best of the 3 alternatives I found. I'm going to try it out soon, Firefox is not an option for the long run anymore. If I wanted a chrome UI I would already be using chrome.
We are not here to compare browsers, but I do note Palemoon getting favourable mentions. Of course it is set to diverge more and more from Firefox. Pale Moon is an unsupported community fork of Firefox, the product will continue to move further and further away from Release Firefox until it doesn't even resemble Firefox. Maybe that is what you want, but presumably it is going to mean the effort required to support it will increase drastically the more it diverges.
The ESR does get the important Security fixes, but not all security fixes, personally I would consider it as being secure and as you say it should be. Of course as Enterprise environment is likely to have additional security measures..
The Windows 64 bit Firefox issue is also well outside the scope of this forum but you may be interested in this old (Dec 2012) article
John, you keep telling the community not to post comments in here, then you say, "we're not here to compare browsers", and then you do exactly that by adding to previous comments about browsers.
I suggest you take a mega dose of your own medicine and stop necro'ing the thread just to keep it alive so you can officiously tell people what they can and can't do.
I am saying most comments in here are not getting you the developer attention that you are craving. And the questions I answered last was about Firefox and I answered it with a link to an external information source.
This thread is still current in that it is about the current release. It is still getting questions posted into it. It will be one of the few thread still open on the subject and it would not surprise me to find that this working week either HelpDesk manages to post some useful information from Developers or decides the thread is to close.
Replacement threads are unlikely to be permitted so read it before it sinks. It is a popular thread as it is approaching 7 thousand views. Although pretty insignificant site wise as this support.mozilla site including the KB articles is probably getting one to two million hits per day at present.